Fundamentals of Blockchain Law with Ryón Nixon Ep #5

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Andrew Hyde: All right, everybody. Welcome to the podcast. This is Ryón Nixon with me. This is Andrew Hyde. Welcome to the podcast.

Ryón Nixon: Thanks, Andrew. Nice to be here.

Andrew Hyde: It is an honor to speak to an actual blockchain lawyer.

Ryón Nixon: Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, it’s the work that keeps on giving.

Andrew Hyde: So, we need to start the episode by saying this is not legal advice?

Ryón Nixon: Yeah.

Andrew Hyde: This is not a paid consultation?

Ryón Nixon: Indeed.

Andrew Hyde: This is not a get out of jail free card?

Ryón Nixon: Maybe.

Andrew Hyde: This is not anything that I should use to try to solicit feedback for other projects and go to the moon?

Ryón Nixon: Exactly.

Andrew Hyde: Can I even say go to the moon?

Ryón Nixon: You could say this asset may moon.

Andrew Hyde: The Solana token will…

Ryón Nixon: Potentially moon.

Andrew Hyde: …provide value.

Ryón Nixon: On certain conditions that have yet to be determined.

Andrew Hyde: On being a super fast blockchain, because that’s what we do. We’re the most performant blockchain in the world. I love the semantics, if you join telegram groups. The semantics are amazing because of lawyers, right?

Ryón Nixon: Yeah, very true.

Andrew Hyde: You’re keeping us safe. So let’s define what it means to be a blockchain lawyer.

Ryón Nixon: Okay.

Andrew Hyde: Or let’s just go to just your bio. How did you get involved into blockchain as a lawyer?

Ryón Nixon: Yeah. I went to UCLA undergrad and law school. I got out of law school, clerked for a federal judge, and then I worked for an aggressive litigation shop; it was very interesting. From there I switched to corporate, because while I thought the work could be purposeful, it just really wasn’t what I was looking for. After that I went to work with Boost VC’s law firm; that’s actually the shirt I’m wearing now.

Ryón Nixon: And from there I got exposure to early blockchain projects in 2013, 2014, mostly Bitcoin projects, exchanges, things like that. And I left, I went to a non-blockchain startup that went bankrupt, and I tried to go back. I was gone too long, and so decided to start my own thing.

Ryón Nixon: Was lucky enough to go back and work with some Boost portfolio projects. One of those was my ether wallet, which has now become my crypto, or with the team that became my crypto, and helped [Taylor 00:02:37] out with a really tricky situation there.

Ryón Nixon: Kind of got my name out in the space, and it’s just building ever since. So yeah, I’ve been lucky to still work with that project. A lot of other projects including being Solana’s GC, so very lucky to be that. I think the space has been great to me, and it’s really interesting, it keeps changing.

Andrew Hyde: You have an absolute amazing amount of war stories having been in the industry for longer than most developers.

Ryón Nixon: Indeed.

Andrew Hyde: That’s something that I didn’t really quite realize until just right now.

Ryón Nixon: Yeah. Being a lawyer is interesting because you get all the dirt. It’s like chess, like the highest form of chess, because if you mess up and you give not the best advice… and there’s never really a black and white answer, right? That’s really what great lawyers understand is that you have to play in the gray. You have to understand the psychology of people, the dynamic of the deal, or the dispute, and how can you use all tools, and some tools that maybe otherwise you may not think of to win, or get the best result possible for your client.

Andrew Hyde: Let’s go one on one, or 101 for the audience, and let’s just describe the semantics of the industry.

Ryón Nixon: Sure.

Andrew Hyde: So what are token types?

Ryón Nixon: There’s ICOs where most token offerings, they want to be categorized as utility even though regulators have come out in the US that all tokens outside of either in the Bitcoin or a security, at least at some point, depending on how decentralized a project is, especially if it’s a layer one, at a certain point in time I think there could be comfort depending on the circumstances of that project and the terms of how you use the token and the purpose of it, that it could then be categorized as strictly utility. But yeah, it’s murky waters. It’s very murky waters.

Andrew Hyde: So utility tokens, security tokens.

Ryón Nixon: Yep.

Andrew Hyde: So what other they kind of got you’s, semantically in the industry, used as token types?

Ryón Nixon: Some big things that projects doing an offering now should just be aware of is, I frequently will get a referral for a project and they want to release their token in 30 days. And it’s like, okay, for me to dig into this would take about a week or two before even getting proper suggestions and consultation for how to release this thing in a compliant way, or in the best way.

Ryón Nixon: Another thing I see a lot of projects doing is they want a completely avoid US jurisdiction, which is completely understandable. But they still have to be aware that there are hooks into the project if they have an operating company here, even if they’re token offering entity is in Singapore, or Malta, or whatever, or BVI, Cayman. You still have responsibilities and compliant obligations if you’re headquartered here; if you headquartered in SF or elsewhere in the US.

Andrew Hyde: I met a founder that lived in San Francisco, but the business was on a ship in international waters, and I was like, I don’t know how that would work.

Ryón Nixon: Yeah, multi-jurisdictions, right?

Andrew Hyde: I don’t think there’s a got you there, I think it’s pretty clear where your apartment is.

Ryón Nixon: Yeah.

Andrew Hyde: I mean, what, Solana is based in six countries as far as our employees, all over the board. And our foundation’s out of Switzerland and our headquarters is out of San Francisco.

Ryón Nixon: Yeah, I mean, listen, I will say as far as using the foundation model, if there is one tried and true, I do think that that’s a smart step for projects to take. I do understand that there’s a lot of cost that goes into that, but at the end of the day, I think if the days of raising $15 million off of a white paper are gone. And that’s great in my opinion, for a variety of reasons. And one, most importantly, is actually building something.

Ryón Nixon: In the case with Solana, they have some awesome technology and they’re really building out some some great things, and there’s a ton of value. And other blockchain projects see that. Other non-blockchain projects and traditional projects see that, which is huge not only for Solana but for the space. And that should give encouragement and a pattern to follow for other projects.

Ryón Nixon: Build something that works, build something that solves a problem. It goes back to the old startup adage: what are we trying to solve here? And if what you’re trying to solve is just raise a ton of money then you should not be in this space. You should not be building it, right?

Andrew Hyde: Yeah, full stop.

Ryón Nixon: Full stop.

Andrew Hyde: Let the people that build, build. And hopefully that clears a better legal picture; a clear legal picture.

Ryón Nixon: Indeed. Yeah. And I think that’s also the purpose behind a lot of these rules and these laws. I have my own feelings about regulation, and regulation here. I had mentioned to you that I’m on the board of this Proof of Stake Alliance, which is a lobby nonprofit to make sure that stakable assets get proper legal and tax treatment. That’s a huge issue that regulators I don’t even think have even thought of yet.

Andrew Hyde: Yeah, let’s explain that. Let’s break that down just a little bit.

Ryón Nixon: Okay, okay, yeah, sorry-

Andrew Hyde: So like, there’s this important thing to understand. Just explain a project using that, taxability.

Ryón Nixon: So let’s say there’s a layer one project, so its own blockchain, and they’re using its token for securing the network, building on the chain, whatever; connecting with other chains or something. And let’s just leave it in the US with what the project is.

Ryón Nixon: Let’s say you have a ton of that token, and you give it to a validator to stakeholders, and they stake it. Let’s say the protocol takes a piece of the reward, or a fee, or whatever, however they want to categorize it, again, semantics, it really doesn’t matter. What happens is what matters, right?

Ryón Nixon: So they take a little bit of a piece of that reward, kicks back to the foundation, the validator takes a piece and then you get the rest. In that one scenario, from a tax perspective, is that one taxable event? Is that three? Is that income? Is that capital gains?

Ryón Nixon: So proper tax treatment and tax categorizing of how stakable assets are treated, and what this transaction represents, is a huge problem. And I think something that regulators should issue some guidance for now, prior to Solana, Polka Dot, DFINITY; I mean there’s a ton, Synthetix. There’s all of these stakable assets being rolled out now, Tezos, Cosmos. And if they don’t give proper advice and at least some guidance, if they can’t firm it up, there’s going to be huge issues. That’s on the tax front.

Ryón Nixon: Now on the securities front, if the protocol takes a little piece of that transaction, then is it actually an active participant, such that now the Howey test is being triggered, and now regulators may or may not go after the project, or after the foundation, at least in that example, it’s very murky and it’s scary.

Ryón Nixon: And I think it’s important for at least regulators in the US, if not internationally, to really take it serious and be smart and not slow about guidance, because for example, if the U S doesn’t do anything, it could kill that market. And I do think the US has slowed down as being the leader in the space so far, because of these restrictive regulations and compliance obligations.

Andrew Hyde: And it feels like there’s a lot of States that are really trying. Wyoming, Colorado, to name a few. I mean who is the most progressive right now in the States? Or does it matter? Is it federal?

Ryón Nixon: The biggest stage is federal. That’s what we’re doing. That’s the whole purpose of the group is to get some of these ideas, and at least some frameworks for regulators to think about, in their hands, from us. It’s a group of top people backed by a lot of the top protocols and the top crypto funds in the space to get out there, and like, let’s just put it together and put it in front of them. Do the research ourselves. Here, this is what we think you should do, these are the reasons why. I worked with some good lobbying groups out there, and we’ll see what happens, because yeah…

Andrew Hyde: That’s awesome. Thanks for doing that work.

Ryón Nixon: Sure.

Andrew Hyde: That’s huge. That’s a huge leader on if projects are going to be based out of the States.

Ryón Nixon: Right.

Andrew Hyde: Because if it becomes a super taxable event, you’re just not going to be based out of the States, right?

Ryón Nixon: Right. And then what’s that going to do? That’s going to drive innovation. That’s going to drive a lot of money. A lot of what the US wants to keep here.

Ryón Nixon: And also, if the US decided to not move at a snail’s speed and actually do something about it, foreign jurisdictions would follow suit, right? So they can be the leader of it, and it’s just about being quick.

Ryón Nixon: And they can be thoughtful. This isn’t something they need to kick out in a month, but our legislatures can be so slow at some of these things, and there’s politics, politics, right? But I do think this is something where hopefully we can push it forward even a little faster, it would have a big impact.

Andrew Hyde: It seems like it makes a ton of sense to do.

Ryón Nixon: Yeah. And to your other question, just to circle back as far as other States. It’s great to see progressive States like Wyoming trying to make progress. But then the thing that, just maybe again a thought for projects is, if you’re spinning up in a state that has maybe favorable blockchain regulations, but you’re still a startup, you’re still bound by corporate law, federal and state. What are you going to do if there’s an issue in Wyoming, when you don’t have the robust corporate reg’s that Delaware has, or case law in Delaware has.

Ryón Nixon: Sure, they look back to Delaware, but then are our startup projects going to have the money, if there is some sort of crazy dispute to fight that out then; pulling precedent from Delaware still takes a bunch of time. And I think the only people that will do well in those situations are lawyers.

Andrew Hyde: We want projects that are building something to be the best suited, not the lawyers, no offense to you.

Ryón Nixon: No, no. No problem, I can’t agree more.

Andrew Hyde: So we’re in 2019, what is the biggest legal story of the year for crypto?

Ryón Nixon: Everybody’s talking about Libra. I think Libra brought a lot of eyeballs back to the space. I’ve talked to people on both sides of the argument that said, Libra’s great. Libra’s going to bring a lot of users, that’s what we need.

Ryón Nixon: I’ve also spoken to other people that said Libra is terrible. Congress is turning a critical eye towards them, and to the space in general, that can only hurt us. I think any news is good news, and we’re here to stay, so whatever. Let’s get through these problems quickly and go from there.

Andrew Hyde: We had some news articles about Solana come out this week, which was lovely when you get to see the press take a critical look at Solana. But one of them called Solana open source-

Ryón Nixon: Decentralized labor, yeah.

Andrew Hyde: Yeah, decentralized labor. Which I found to be not something I would have put high on the list.

Ryón Nixon: Yeah, again, I think… and this is my own, just opinion of Solana… I love that the team was very, and still is very heads down and building great stuff. It reminds me a lot of some other projects I’ve worked with that are doing great, great things in the space. Solana has developed a strong following, I think because of that. And while it may not be the best, I think Solana coming out first, we can one up Libra, that’d be great, right?

Andrew Hyde: Oh, it would be great, yeah. Let’s take on an absolute behemoth. But also, I think it’s great. And you’ll see, through the office, once a week, the Libra folks will come over and say hi, and have a…

Ryón Nixon: Have a chat?

Andrew Hyde: A coffee, a water, a drink, whatever. But it’s a friendly space. I think we’re communicating with them. I heard one of our engineers, actually, I think it was [Greg 00:13:50] , our CTO said, we’re communicating with them the way open source projects communicate and that’s via code.

Andrew Hyde: And so, if you look at our GitHub, we have the Go language bridge between Libra and Solana already launched. And we’re the first project in the world doing that, within three weeks of them announcing it.

Ryón Nixon: Yeah. And I reviewed the Libra contributions, CLA as well. So yeah, I know the [inaudible 00:14:12] stuff out there.

Andrew Hyde: So that’s pretty fun.

Ryón Nixon: Not fun paperwork, but cool to know we’re doing it.

Andrew Hyde: Yeah. So Libra, they get a congressional hearing within two weeks of announcing the project, is amazing to me. That’s not common.

Ryón Nixon: That’s not common at all. That’s the power of Facebook.

Andrew Hyde: Facebook, and blockchain.

Ryón Nixon: And blockchain.

Andrew Hyde: And the government saying, whoa, we think you are too big already, and we think this can be a very disruptive idea, to a law.

Ryón Nixon: Yeah. And that is exciting.

Andrew Hyde: And I didn’t quite get it. When they announced it, it was like, Oh, this is cool. Are they trying to just replace the US dollar with the Facebook dollar? And then you look at some countries where they’ve got 90% penetration of Facebook accounts, and still no digital cash. It’s like, oh, it makes full sense, some places. In the States I think we’re not going to fully get the power of it for a little bit, because we’re spoiled. We’ve got really good financial systems to benefit off of.

Ryón Nixon: Yeah. And I don’t think the government’s going to want to give up any, or all power, anytime soon.

Andrew Hyde: They want to play a role. I mean they’re trying to protect people. That’s not a huge negative thing. As I’ve seen in our telegram channel, there are some people that lie on the internet.

Ryón Nixon: No.

Andrew Hyde: Yeah.

Ryón Nixon: I have actually never read an untruth on the internet before.

Andrew Hyde: Speaking of untruths on the internet you’re a… I’m going to say high powered… former MMA fighter; so I can say powerful. We had some video’s yesterday, that was hilarious and a half. I love when you find out. The culture of Solana, it’s so funny in that there’s so many interesting people here, and then you find out this insane thing about them.

Ryón Nixon: Thanks Andrew, thanks for putting that out there.

Andrew Hyde: So [crosstalk 00:15:51] maybe find out that you used to do that. Where do you get your news? As somebody in the space that has to make real decisions and provide real… Where do you get your news?

Ryón Nixon: It’s very interesting, in blockchain you have blockchain media who put out good stuff, but there’s also a lot of hype. There’s a lot of shilling. How do you cut through that?

Ryón Nixon: So to be specific, any time there’s a release, if there’s a no-action letter, like the SC recently released one, I’ll read legal filings, legal releases from regulators, block stacks, like Reg A+ filing. What does that look like? Why did they get it? Reg A+ offerings was all the vogue for a while, but then projects realized it took a couple million dollars, and may or may not be granted.

Ryón Nixon: So that was a big win. Actually, circle back to one of the biggest wins of 2019, I think it’s that, because I think other projects will now be able to have compliant securities offerings, blockchain projects.

Ryón Nixon: So that’s where I’ll get some of my news. I do read a lot of Medium articles because I think, look, hey, to be a real blockchain lawyer in this space, you have to understand all the projects. You have to understand what they’re doing. What’s the incentive? What’s the issues? What are the issues on a really deep level, a granular level, right? How do you figure that out? You have to understand every part of the tech, and that doesn’t mean you need to learn Rust, which I don’t know Rust.

Andrew Hyde: Me either.

Ryón Nixon: Yeah. But you have to really, really dig into this stuff. And I actually get a lot of news or things to check out from a lot of my contacts in the space. So I am active on telegram, I’m active on chats. People in blockchain like to talk about blockchain stuff, and it does help filter out some of the more shilling and noise, because this space also moves really fast, right? My time’s limited, all our time is.

Andrew Hyde: If you just talk about this last crypto winter that I think everybody’s hoping we’re out of, but probably are still a little bit in, it’s totally changed, right? A year ago advice, from now, is completely different, and I can’t imagine another three months what it’s going to be.

Ryón Nixon: Oh yeah, yeah. I think as more and more projects, major layer ones, roll out, Solana rolls out, Polka Dot rolls out, I think it’s going to be a completely new set of problems, a whole new change and focus. And I think that’s what makes blockchain exciting; that’s also, I think, for people trying to get in.

Ryón Nixon: Attorney’s sometimes hit me up and they’re like, oh, how do I get in? And it’s just like, hey man, you just got to fall down the rabbit hole. But you’ve got to love it too, because you can’t just go, oh yeah, I know, I’m a securities lawyer. It’s just not that easy. It does move very quickly; it is very exciting. But yeah, I don’t know, we’ll see what the next six months brings.

Andrew Hyde: So with that being said, this industry is constantly moving, and constantly evolving. What are the biggest mistakes you see projects make?

Ryón Nixon: I think projects, and this could even be applicable to just most startups is they’re like penny-wise and pound-foolish, right? Don’t use some advisor agreement you downloaded from the internet, and then you’re mixing your options with your restricted stock, with your tokens and different vesting schedules, and then come back when there’s an issue and go, hey, we want to hire you now. This thing blew up, we have no money. Well, just pay an attorney, a couple thousand bucks, now you have a template, use it for everybody.

Ryón Nixon: Don’t enter this space with a mind to just raise as much money as you want. To win a token offering isn’t an unlimited faucet of cash for your project. What do you need the cash for? How much do you think you need to raise you? You don’t have to be super conservative with that, but be thoughtful. Have somebody do your tokenomics. What are you going to offer? What does it look? Don’t just throw some stuff out there. This isn’t 2017, you can’t do that anymore.

Ryón Nixon: And I think some projects, most of the projects are thoughtful about that, but I still see it happening once in a while where it’s just like, Oh, well we’re just doing an equity raise. Well actually, we’ve been thinking about a token. And it’s just like, Oh, we’re still here? What’s the token going to do? We haven’t thought about it yet, but we want to do it next month. Wait, what?

Ryón Nixon: I mean, I literally… like six weeks ago, over the phone, I was just like, okay, why don’t you circle back when you have this fleshed out, because I’m not going to work with some company that’s just trying to BS to do an offering, right? I think those are a lot of the main ones.

Ryón Nixon: Be smart. Follow the models that work, EG, the foundation model. What is the real purpose? What does it solve? Do you actually need a token? Because projects can still do a traditional equity raise. I mean that’s what venture capital is for. It’s what has been done for many, many years prior to tokens being a thing.

Ryón Nixon: It’s okay, you can be a blockchain project and just get equity. My crypto did that, it’s okay. If they would have did a token, they would run up a $1 billion, but the whole ICO madness is BS. And there’d be no use, so they didn’t.

Andrew Hyde: Sure. So I wrote a post a while ago about the motivations of crypto founders, and basically it’s all over the board. You’ve got some people that love security. You’ve got some people that love ICOs. You got some people that really love the idea of no borders. You got like an anarchist.

Ryón Nixon: Yeah, governance, yeah.

Andrew Hyde: It’s all over the board. And so, if you have a conference and you’re speaking, you’re actually speaking to seven or eight very different groups of people.

Ryón Nixon: Yeah.

Andrew Hyde: Do you find that that’s the same way with the legal aspect or is there pretty much a core legal guidance that’s pretty grounded?

Ryón Nixon: Grounded as far as what?

Andrew Hyde: Is your style drastically different than others?

Ryón Nixon: Oh yeah. Yeah. This is definitely, I think specific to me, I think every lawyer is different. Being a great lawyer is about solving problems, right? Being a great blockchain lawyer is about how do we give sound advice, not stand in the way of the project. You have to be nimble. What are they looking for?

Ryón Nixon: So to using your example, what is this really about, right? Is this about security? Okay, well maybe, just keep that in the back of my mind, and some things need to be a little extra tight. Or if we’re doing a joint venture, how do we ensure that the security and sharing of information is a little faster, because security is such a big issue. Do they have simple things like designated security representatives?

Ryón Nixon: I guess I focus on what the project’s bent is, like dynamic, what they’re looking for, the problem to solve, and how they actually function, right? So again, how does that manifest and so how can I buttress that.

Andrew Hyde: What advice do you have to anybody that’s building on. Like if I want to build a blogging network. I want to make new Twitter but to be decentralized. I mean use Solana as my everything, because 1000th of a penny for a transaction, sounds pretty good to me.

Ryón Nixon: Pretty cheap.

Andrew Hyde: If that’s the cost of a tweet, that’d be cool.

Andrew Hyde: So what advice would you have for me? If I want to organize a business around that, that’s meant to be decentralized, do I do it totally anonymously? Do I come out and form a company out of Wyoming? Colorado? I’m going to show Colorado, because that’s what you should do if you’re from Colorado. What advice do you have for me, if I’m going to build on stuff? Legally, where should I look for advice?

Ryón Nixon: Incorporate wherever you’d like to. I would sit back and do a long business plan, of course it’s a draft, right? But what is the purpose? I think that, again, one of the problems with blockchain projects is you can just build a project on Solana for example, you’re not issuing a token. A lot of these securities regulations aren’t that big a deal to you. What should be more a big deal is just corporate law, right?

Ryón Nixon: So how do you set up the cheapest? So maybe Delaware and it’s easiest, and working with Delaware Department of Corporations versus Wyoming, or California, is very different. Delaware is great. So I would say in your example, maybe set up in Delaware. What’s the cost?

Ryón Nixon: You want to do it anonymously and it’s just decentralized. There’s no censorship. But how are you going to sustain your business model? Is it donations? Is it maybe you add the Solana fee and then you add a penny on top, so it costs all your users one penny, or half a penny, or however you want to use it. So maybe in this situation, you might need a token because you have to fill up the reserve for business operations, and they can deplete it, or use their tokens however.

Ryón Nixon: So I’d say, sit back and think about how you want that to function. Always think about how you’re going to stay alive and grow as well as, I guess, keeping in line with your bent as far as being centralized. I don’t know. I don’t know if I answered that properly.

Andrew Hyde: I think you did, but I think that that’s where a lot of the innovation is going to come from. The level ones are going to step up and deliver. Ethereum 2.0 is coming out. People are going to actually be able to use projects to do bigger things. And I think they’re going to have just as many questions as the level ones are having right now.

Ryón Nixon: Yeah. Yeah. And going back to your example, actually I worked with someone who was doing Twitter on Ethereum so I could connect you, if that is something you’re serious about.

Andrew Hyde: All right, final question.

Ryón Nixon: Sure.

Andrew Hyde: You’re sitting at a bar. Somebody says, what do you do? Do you say blockchain lawyer?

Ryón Nixon: No. I don’t know. I typically just say I solve problems for a living. But yeah, if they dig deeper, I say I’m a blockchain lawyer. I don’t like to say I’m a crypto lawyer. I just think that that’s, again, semantics, it’s just semantics, but I just think it really…

Ryón Nixon: It’s funny, I talked to my dad, my dad thinks I work for Bitcoin, right? And he’s like, “Yeah, so Bitcoin’s doing well.” I’m like, “Yeah, it’s doing great dad, yeah.” “Can I have some Bitcoin?” “Sure. Yeah. I’ll ask Bitcoin to give you some and give me some and we’ll just split it.” You know what I mean?

Ryón Nixon: So, if pressed, if I know they get the space, or they’re in the space, or they care about the space then I’ll tell them I’m a blockchain lawyer. But yeah, I typically just say I solve problems; not that interesting.

Andrew Hyde: I hung out with a Grammy award winning singer songwriter Kimya Dawson at a conference and such, and I said, what do you do? And if I was a Grammy award winning singer, I would say I’m a grammy award… I mean I would have no ego about that. And she said she was a hand model. And then I looked at her hands, and she put them away and said no free samples.

Andrew Hyde: And then finding that there’s a lot of people in the industry that just won’t fully say it because there’s so much baggage in the industry; like it or not. There’s people that think that you’re a multi, multimillionaire just because you’ve worked in the industry for a month.

Ryón Nixon: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I think it’s funny, I missed the Ethereum pre-sale. It’d be nice to have gotten in and bought 40,000 Bitcoin in 2009, but I didn’t. I work really hard. I appreciate the work. I like the work, and I think I give good value to the projects I work with. I think Solana has been happy with me so far, right?

Ryón Nixon: But yeah, I agree. I think it’s the same way. I’ve a few times, told people that I’m in blockchain and they go, Oh, what should I invest in? And I’m like, I don’t know man. I don’t even know you.

Ryón Nixon: Man, I tell this story all the time. I think I told it on some other podcasts about this one project that wanted to do pet products on the blockchain. And I was like, “What? Like logistics? And they’re like, “No, just pet products and marketing.” And I was like, “Wait, what? And they’re like, we’ll give you a couple hundred thousand dollars for legal opinion.” And I was like, “Okay, talk to you later.”

Andrew Hyde: I feel like I’m being punked by that question. Like this is actually web 1.0 doomsday just repeating itself.

Ryón Nixon: Yeah. Right. The similarities. So pets.Com, I just think it’s just, I don’t know man…

Andrew Hyde: It’s absolutely pets on the blockchain.

Ryón Nixon: Yeah.

Andrew Hyde: Well, we’re going to be having some fun. How do we follow up with you? If you’re listening to this podcast and you have a question. Do you have a blog? Do you have a Twitter that everybody should follow?

Ryón Nixon: Yeah, I have a Twitter. I’ll give you my Twitter handle. It’s, it’s Ryon Nixon; you can put it in the notes. LinkedIn is very hard for me, it’s like a ton of spam and people message me about investing in their ICO, or about getting on their exchange, so I don’t go on there that much.

Andrew Hyde: We’ll put your Twitter in the show notes. We will not ask you to invest in anything, or provide any legal advice for any reason, including Solana. Thank you so much for your time.

Ryón Nixon: Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Andrew Hyde: Cheers.

Ryón Nixon: Cheers.

Andrew Hyde: Hey everybody. Thanks for listening to this episode. If you have any questions for our guests or want to continue this discussion, please check out our website That’s There are links to our discord where most of our communication happens in the company.

Andrew Hyde: Also, you should check out our GitHub page where we post all of our code for you to check out and even help out with: You can also follow us on Twitter, @Solana. Thanks for listening. See you next week.

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